“As humans, one of our superpowers is creativity. Both on an individual level, but also on a species level. And by creativity, I mean the ability to solve problems.”
— Carl Pei
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Carl Pei is the founder of Nothing, the consumer electronics company known for its distinctive transparent design language across smartphones and audio products. Before launching Nothing in 2020, Carl co-founded OnePlus, where he spent seven years helping build it into a major smartphone brand. But Carl’s instincts as a builder showed up much earlier. As a teenager, he taught himself to code by building Pokémon fan sites, all while moving between China, the U.S., and Sweden. That combination of early creation and constant change shaped a founder comfortable with uncertainty—and deeply motivated by questions bigger than products. Carl thinks often about time and mortality, is skeptical of early retirement, and believes creativity is humanity’s real advantage. In an industry obsessed with optimization, he’s focused on making technology feel meaningful again.
In our conversation, we explore:
The origins of Nothing’s transparent design language and how it helps differentiate the brand in a mature, competitive market
Carl’s childhood fascination with mortality and how it continues to drive his ambition today
Nothing’s multiple near-death experiences, from 80% defect rates on first products to fundraising struggles
Why India has become a crucial market for Nothing’s smartphone business
How Nothing approaches community involvement, including letting users invest alongside VCs
The company’s approach to integrating AI features without overhyping the technology
Carl’s admiration for Genghis Khan’s management style and talent acquisition approach
The future of consumer electronics beyond smartphones
Thank you to our sponsor, Guru — The AI source of truth for work
Explore the episode
Timestamps
(00:00) Introduction to Carl Pei and Nothing
(02:44) Nothing’s long-term vision
(06:33) How existential thinking shapes Carl’s motivation
(10:12) Why Carl’s planned sabbatical ended after ten days
(12:35) Carl’s international upbringing
(16:02) Entrepreneurial experiments in China
(19:10) Carl’s competitive nature and attitude toward school
(25:30) Lessons from seven years at OnePlus
(28:07) Taking a break at age 31
(30:50) Carl’s fundraising strategy
(33:26) Why Carl chose London for Nothing’s HQ
(35:12) Lessons from Genghis Khan
(38:38) Nothing’s first near-death moment
(42:56) Nothing’s product evolution and breakout hits
(45:24) Partnering with Teenage Engineering
(49:28) Design inspirations
(51:36) How Nothing recruits talent
(53:42) Nothing’s approach to marketing
(56:51) How India became a key market
(59:48) Why Nothing created CMF
(1:02:12) Why Carl is bullish on India
(1:03:32) How Carl thinks about AI
(1:07:05) Rethinking ads based on community feedback
(1:09:05) How Nothing leverages community
(1:11:23) Why AI hardware is struggling
(1:13:37) Carl’s thoughts on the future of consumer electronics
(1:15:10) Philosophies that shape Carl’s worldview
(1:16:45) Final meditations
Follow Carl Pei
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/getpeid
Resources and episode mentions
Books
Apple in China: The Capture of the World’s Greatest Company: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-China-Capture-Greatest-Company/dp/1668053373
Conqueror (5 book series): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074C4LS8D
Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice: https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Mind-Beginners-Informal-Meditation/dp/1590308492
People
Genghis Khan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
Elon Musk on X: https://x.com/elonmusk
Jesper Kouthoofd on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesperkouthoofd
Charlie Smith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliejamessmith
Other resources
Nothing: https://us.nothing.tech
Carl’s AMA thread on X: https://x.com/getpeid/status/1796233634376216610
Steve Jobs’ 2005 Stanford Commencement Address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc
League of Legends: https://www.leagueoflegends.com
OnePlus: https://www.oneplus.com
King: https://www.king.com
Klarna: https://www.klarna.com
Teenage Engineering: https://teenage.engineering
Dior: https://www.dior.com
Gucci: https://www.gucci.com
Ipren the Intelligent Painkiller: https://adsspot.me/media/tv-commercials/ipren-the-intelligent-painkiller-7295f9e7a6fc
Get to Know Creative Museum Tokyo ‐ Experience the Creativity of Diverse Works and Creators in an Expansive Space Presented by Sony: https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/blog/2025/02/19
2001: A Space Odyssey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey
HAL 9000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_9000
Loewe: https://www.loewe.com
4K Restoration: 1984 Super Bowl APPLE MACINTOSH Ad by Ridley Scott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErwS24cBZPc
Essential apps: https://playground.nothing.tech/apps
Porsche: https://www.porsche.com/
Limitless: https://www.limitless.ai
Friend: https://friend.com
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