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I'm thrilled to share this very special episode of The Generalist—one I've been looking forward to for a long time. Today, we tackle one of the most urgent questions of our time: What should computing look like in the age of AI?
I'm joined by two extraordinary guests: Alan Kay, a pioneer of modern computing whose vision helped shape the personal computer revolution, and Anjan Katta, founder of Daylight, who's building a radically reimagined personal computer designed for deep thinking in our AI-saturated world. This conversation has been months in the making, and I couldn't be more excited to bring these two brilliant minds together.
We explore how artificial intelligence is reshaping our relationship with computers, whether current computing paradigms serve us well as AI becomes ubiquitous, and what new models of human-computer interaction we might need to thrive alongside intelligent machines.
This is a conversation about reclaiming agency in an age of algorithms—and imagining computing tools that amplify human intelligence rather than replace it. I think you're going to love it.
We explore:
Why Alan believes the "computer revolution" commercialized in the wrong direction, missing the deeper humanistic vision of early computing pioneers
How the structure of information, from pagination to platforms, shapes the way we think
How Daylight is creating a reading and writing-focused device that helps access our "prefrontal cortex" rather than our "lizard brain"
The concept of a magical medium, and how computing might help us become our best selves
Why Marshall McLuhan's media theories predicted our current technological predicament decades before it happened
The critical difference between intelligence and wisdom in computing systems, and why wisdom should be our focus
How thoughtful constraints in computing design can lead to better thinking and more meaningful interaction
The urgency of developing systems thinking in a world facing complex challenges
And much more
Explore the episode
Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(05:17) The computer revolution we never got (and what we got instead)
(11:45) The value of writing and the impact of the printing press
(21:34) The addition of pagination and the evolution of arguments
(24:53) Why Anjan calls his idealized version of computing a magical medium
(29:00) Alan’s work at PARC and early conceptions of personal computing
(32:02) Moore’s Law and the impact of reality TV
(37:41) How Bob Barton and Marshall McLuhan influenced Alan
(42:31) The problem with labels and what Anjan found surprising about Alan
(46:02) How much help is too much help?
(48:18) Marvin Minsky's military robot story and the history of misunderstanding AGI
(51:50) What we need help with and why wisdom is hard to scale
(54:19) How Daylight approaches computing with humility and thoughtful constraints
(59:13) Alan's reflections on the Dynabook concept and personal computing vision
(01:01:11) The timeline of building Daylight and the idealism behind the project
(01:03:14) The urgent need for different thinking
(01:06:40) A second shot at rebuilding computing from the ground up
(01:11:57) Final meditations
Follow Alan Kay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-kay-12a627b/
Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Alan-Kay-11
Follow Anjan Katta
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anjan-katta-250b232b4/
Resources and episode mentions
Books
Phaedrus: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1636/1636-h/1636-h.htm
The Printing Press as an Agent of Change: Communications and Cultural Trans: https://www.amazon.com/Printing-Press-Agent-Change-Communications/dp/0521299551
The Medium is the Massage: https://www.amazon.com/Medium-Massage-Marshall-McLuhan/dp/1584230703
The Mechanical Bride: Folklore of Industrial Man: https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Bride-Folklore-Industrial-Man/dp/1584230509/
The Gutenberg Galaxy: https://www.amazon.com/Gutenberg-Galaxy-Marshall-McLuhan/dp/144261269X
The Odyssey: https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer/dp/0140268863
Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned: The Myth of the Objective: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Greatness-Cannot-Planned-Objective/dp/3319155237
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind: https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072/
CRC Standard Mathematical Tables and Formulae: https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Mathematical-Formulae-Advances-Mathematics/dp/1439835489
People
Marshall McLuhan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan
Nicholas Negroponte: https://web.media.mit.edu/~nicholas/
Socrates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates
Aldus Manutius: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldus_Manutius
Jerome Bruner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Bruner
John McCarthy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCarthy_(computer_scientist)
Gordon Moore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Moore
Bob Barton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Barton
Marvin Minsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky
Tyler Cowen’s website: https://tylercowen.com/
Other resources
The Computer Revolution Hasn't Happened Yet: https://mprove.de/visionreality/media/kay-CRA2002.pdf
Civilization: Episode 2: The Great Thaw: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074r34
Final Cut Pro: https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/
GarageBand: https://www.apple.com/mac/garageband/
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
Xerox PARC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company)
Dynabook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook
Moore’s law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law
Archie Bunker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Bunker
Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/
Daylight: https://daylightcomputer.com/
Quote from Hamlet: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/48958-o-god-i-could-be-bounded-in-a-nutshell-and
The Daylight Computer: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/08/the-daylight-computer.html
Einstein’s quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/albert_einstein_385842
McGuffey Readers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuffey_Readers
Alan Kay’s quote about the future: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/61-the-best-way-to-predict-the-future-is-to-invent
Confirmation bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
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