“Warfare is always just adapting to whatever the other side is doing. And the person that wins is whoever adapts faster. And at this point in time, American aerospace is uniquely poorly suited to do that.” —Bryon Hargis, Co-Founder & CEO of Castelion
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Bryon Hargis is the co-founder and CEO of Castelion, a defense startup building low-cost hypersonic missiles designed to be manufactured at scale. Before founding Castelion, Bryon spent more than a decade at Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory and nearly six years at SpaceX, where he worked on national security space programs and saw firsthand how iterative engineering and manufacturing speed could reshape aerospace. Castelion’s first missile, Blackbeard, is slated for integration on the Navy’s F/A-18 Super Hornet in roughly a year.
In our conversation, we explore:
Why Bryon believes building missiles is paradoxically essential to maintaining peace
The game theory behind warfare and why tit-for-tat strategies require credible middle-ground responses
How China’s 2021 hypersonic test revealed not just a capability gap but a manufacturing and cost advantage
Why traditional aerospace processes—optimized for low risk and high cost—can’t compete with rapid iteration
What Bryon learned in his first week at SpaceX (after 12 years in traditional aerospace)
Why building a carrier-based, air-launched hypersonic missile as a first product was the hard but right choice
How focusing on manufacturability and cost over maximum capability can produce more effective deterrence
Why the person who adapts faster in warfare always wins, and how that shapes Castelion’s philosophy
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Explore the episode
Timestamps
(00:00) Intro
(04:01) Why America needs hypersonic missiles
(07:13) China’s edge in hypersonics
(12:05) The missing middle ground in deterrence
(18:05) Preventing warhead ambiguity
(19:40) How hypersonics differ from ballistic missiles
(25:05) The economics of defensive vs. offensive systems
(28:21) How SpaceX differs from traditional aerospace
(37:40) Why Bryon chose to build in defense over space
(42:42) Key factors that drove Castelion’s success
(48:28) Designing Blackbeard, Castelion’s first hypersonic missile
(1:01:06) The importance of lower costs and quicker manufacturing
(1:10:04) Book recommendations
Follow Bryon Hargis
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hargsb
Resources and episode mentions
Books
Carrying the Fire: An Astronaut’s Journeys: https://www.amazon.com/Carrying-Fire-Astronauts-Michael-Collins/dp/0374531943
Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years at Lockheed: https://www.amazon.com/Skunk-Works-Personal-Memoir-Lockheed/dp/0316743003
The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205
Gravitation: https://www.amazon.com/Gravitation-Charles-W-Misner/dp/0691177791
“Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman!”: Adventures of a Curious Character: https://www.amazon.com/Surely-Youre-Joking-Mr-Feynman/dp/0393355624
Perfectly Reasonable Deviations from the Beaten Track: https://www.amazon.com/Perfectly-Reasonable-Deviations-Beaten-Track/dp/0465023711
People
Kip Thorne: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Thorne
Richard Feynman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman
Other resources
Castelion: https://www.castelion.com
Chinese hypersonic weapon fired a missile over South China Sea: https://www.ft.com/content/a127f6de-f7b1-459e-b7ae-c14ed6a9198c?syn-25a6b1a6=1
Prisoner’s dilemma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
Planet Labs: https://www.planet.com
Falcon 9: https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/falcon-9
Veritasium: https://www.youtube.com/@veritasium
3Blue1Brown: https://www.youtube.com/@3blue1brown
Making Mistakes with Greg: https://www.youtube.com/@makingmistakeswithgreg
Super Fast Matt: https://www.youtube.com/@SuperfastMatt
This game theory problem will change the way you see the world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM
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